Gruber calls the watermark 'a perversion of writing'
7 Aug 16 5:53 PM · 62d ago · 16 articles · 33 posts · 20 comments · 5 sources · development 7 of 8
John Gruber published a widely discussed Daring Fireball essay arguing Anthropic's claim that watermarking doesn't affect quality was false, since biasing word choice for detectability inherently corrupts text generated for the user; it drew a 714-comment Hacker News thread and follow-up Business Insider coverage.
“The idea that anything other than *my* needs should factor into the generation of text *for me* is patently offensive.”
John GruberAnthropic AI lab, maker of ClaudeJohn Gruber Daring Fireball writerArturo Villarroya Claude Max subscriber, public policy workerVladislav Rajtmajer Freelance developer, Czech RepublicJames Padolsey Author of interactive watermarking explainer
The whole story articlespostscomments the bright band is this development · numbered dots are the others · click one to jump
What was reported 3 claims about this development
-
first by The Guardian, 61d ago · also Guardian Media, Guardian Tech
-
first by Business Insider, 61d ago
-
first by The Register, 61d ago
What people said 24 voices · best of 41 · verbatim
-
K
This is not about copyright, safety or anything human concerns. This is a way to prevent the models from ingesting their own output, and limit scraping to only original human (high value) content. Remember these people buy up old (human authored) books with the container load only to rip them apart to give their models a slight edge. https://…
-
This (Anthropic's "watermark" stance, I mean) is so fundamentally ludicrous that I have assumed it is a (wholly insincere, but arguably pragmatic, at least from their perspective) attempt to deal with the EU and their latest misguided, ham-fisted attempt to solve a real-world problem by drenching the entire world with more regulatory slop[1].The…
-
Future Claude models are getting an invisible text watermark. But not the way you'd think. No hidden characters. No extra tokens. No visible label. No user-identifying information. It's basically a statistical pattern hidden in the model's word choices that Anthropic can check
-
This puts the death knell on Claude's usage by writers of all stripes for all purposes, imho. — Anthropic's ‘Watermark’ Text Adulteration in Claude Is a Perversion of Writing —
-
L
If you're worried about Anthropic's Claude AI watermarking text it creates or processes ... THEN DON'T USE IT. I sure as hell don't, whether it's watermarked or not. And I don't use any of the other LLM AI chatbots either. Golly, I'm still able to write and code without AI. Inconceivable!
-
What a truly bizarre article. Arguments about pre-existing randomness, temperature and whatnot aside, I simply cannot comprehend what the author here really thinks the "best word" is. There's no such thing. We humans fall on familiar patterns of writing ourselves, so we may forego something with a flourish in favor of a more commonly-used word…
-
T
Discover how Anthropic's new watermarks on Claude aim to ensure AI content stays transparent and trustworthy. Read More 👉 : techcrunch.com/2026/08/15/a... #AIMarketing #AITransparency
-
B
Can a watermark settle whether a document was written by AI? A visual explainer walks the mechanism in five steps, with dice you can roll to watch a secret key tilt the model's word choice. But Anthropic's implementation can only detect texts written by its models, and can't work as well with short texts such as exam answers. Still, applying the…
-
That's inaccurate in two ways:(1) The behavior that is approximately what you describe is not "fundamental" (though it may not be something you can disable on some hosted providers), it is an option that is not fundamental (and with runtimes where you have full control can be either disabled or tuned in a large number of manners), and(2) The…
-
T
Anthropic's text watermark alters word probabilities to embed a fingerprint, which could degrade Claude's writing, despite its claim of no impact on quality (John Gruber/Daring Fireball) https:// daringfireball.net/2026/08/ant hropics_watermark_text_adulteration_in_claude_is_a_perversion_of_writing http://www. techmeme.com/260817/p1#a260817 p1
-
I think this is a key reason why humans write better prose than LLMs - we can try to choose the best word every time, and go back and restructure sentences and paragraphs if we want.On the other hand, LLMs are forced into picking some likely-ish word, and then have to build the rest of their response to retcon that choice into making sense.Even…
-
P
RE: https:// mas.to/@carnage4life/117107645 993032451 Man, this watermarking discourse could use an injection of some basic information theory. Take the PRNG that Anthropic uses to generate its choice of tokens. It's fed with a stream of random bits, right? Those random bits? That's your watermark. Done. Just generate each message from the same…
-
> But only Anthropic will be able to determine if text was seemingly generated by Claude, and Anthropic will only be able to detect the watermarks that are applied by Claude. Claude can’t detect the hidden watermark signals generated by, say, Gemini, and Gemini can’t detect the hidden watermark signals created by Claude, because each…
-
A
# Anthropic ’s new # watermark system for # Claude models uses # semanticwatermarking . This method, while not altering the meaning or readability of the text, is seen as a # compromise on quality for the sake of compliance with EU regulations. This approach is # unnecessary and potentially # detrimental to honest users, as dishonest users will…
-
> One of my fundamental problem with this is that no two synonyms carry the exact same meaning. “He leaped at the chance” and “He jumped at the opportunity” are very similar sentences expressing the same general sentiment, but they are not the same. The exact words we choose when writing matter.Then why are you using an LLM to write? They're not…
-
N
Ah, nothing screams innovative like slapping a "watermark" on digital text to appease the EU regulatory overlords. 🎉 Who knew that the future of writing was drowning in bureaucratic compliance? 🙄 Let's all give Anthropic a big round of applause for turning # creativity into a game of "spot the # watermark ." 🏆 https://…
-
I often agree with John Gruber, but I think he’s lost the plot with this one.The thing I don’t understand is why he seems to care so much about this subject. Enough to write, what, 2000 words on it? (I didn’t do a proper word count.)John is a writer. He’s been writing for over 25 years now. When you’re that good at writing, and you care this much…
-
C
John Gruber dislikes Anthropic’s watermarking because Claude may choose words that make AI text easier to detect instead of simply writing the best answer. Personally I don’t care that much. Claude’s writing was already too clunky to send without editing. If editing also defeats the watermark, bonus. https:// daringfireball.net/2026/08/ant…
-
> I want any LLM I use to choose the very best, most precise words at every single decision point.Then bad news: LLMs already use randomness in a fundamental way. Each time they go to generate a token, they first generate a probability distribution of possible tokens. Then they pick one randomly according to this distribution. The technique…
-
P
@ timkellogg.me People are angry at # Anthropic watermarking Claude even though: 1. OpenAI is also doing it 2. Google has been doing it 3. It’s the EU making them 4. Google invented the technique 5. Google already A/B tested it on a 20M dataset, verified it doesn’t impact quality https://www. nature.com/articles/s41586-024 -08025-4.pdf # AI #…
-
LLMs are already perversions of writing, so what else is new. Oh no, the over-long circumlocution generated by three autocorrects in a trenchcoat might be slightly longer because of this and maybe people will start noticing the subtle rhythms of vaguely peculiar word choices as yet another cue that you are wasting their time with machine-generated…
-
I have craftily tuned my own highly-localized text-generating intelligence in a such a manner that it can easily defeat any watermark detection scheme, and as a bonus it is also highly power-efficient, running as it does on Coke Zero and snacks
-
> The provider must mandate in their terms-of-service that users not remove the watermarking.So, you don't own the generated text, and can't use it freely then. What if I copy paste a section, or rewrite a section of text to my liking? What if I rewrite some lines of code that contains the mark?Security theater, and vague enough to be used as a…
-
M
Una buena explicación de por qué el watermarking de Anthropic es una porquería. Daring Fireball: Anthropic’s ‘Watermark’ Text Adulteration in Claude Is a Perversion of Writing https:// daringfireball.net/2026/08/ant hropics_watermark_text_adulteration_in_claude_is_a_perversion_of_writing
All 8 developments of Claude's AI text watermark sparks backlash, cancellations… →
Hacker NewsNewswiresMastodonRedditXBlueskyGoogle NewsLobsters