Mozilla warns antitrust curbs on Google payments would force Firefox exit
In court filing, Mozilla argues that blocking Google search payments would devastate independent browsers and entrench Big Tech dominance.
Conversation activity · last 34 hours presspostscomments the crowd ↓
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What to know
- Mozilla filed court papers warning that banning Google search payments would force it to exit the browser market, eliminating a major privacy-focused alternative and consolidating Big Tech control.
- Judge Mehta's September 2025 ruling permitted Google to continue paying Firefox and other distributors; federal authorities are now appealing that decision, claiming a payment ban is necessary for competition.
- Mozilla argues its own research shows revenues would collapse if it switched from Google to Bing, supporting Mehta's conclusion that a payment ban would have major market consequences.
- The tech community is divided: some worry Firefox's collapse would harm internet openness, while others criticize Mozilla for mismanaging $400+ million in annual Google payments and argue the company deserves to fail for its strategic failures.
How it unfolded
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U.S. federal and state competition authorities recently requested the court of appeals overturn the portion of Mehta's ruling that allows Google to pay Firefox and other distributors for search engine placement.
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Mozilla filed an amicus curiae brief with the Court of Appeals arguing that banning Google payments would force Mozilla and other independent browser developers to exit the market, eliminating privacy-focused alternatives and strengthening Big Tech dominance.
“a ban on these payments could lead the company and other independent browser developers to withdraw from the market”
Mozilla · Hacker News ↗ -
Hacker News commenters express mixed views, with many criticizing Mozilla's financial mismanagement while others worry about competitive alternatives if Mozilla fails. Mastodon users call out what they see as hypocrisy given Mozilla's reliance on the same payments it now seeks to protect.
- 49 weeks quiet
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Judge Mehta prohibited Google from entering into exclusive distribution agreements for Google Search, Chrome, Google Assistant, and Gemini. However, the ruling permitted Google to continue paying Apple, Mozilla, and other distributors for search placement.
- 87 weeks quiet
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Federal Judge Amit Mehta found Google had unlawfully maintained its monopoly in general search services and text ads linked to search queries.
- 209 weeks quiet
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The U.S. Department of Justice and a group of states accused Google of violating competition law by making arrangements that made Google the default search engine in Apple Safari, Mozilla Firefox, and Android.
What people are saying verbatim
“a ban on these payments could lead the company and other independent browser developers to withdraw from the market”
Mozilla, In amicus brief · TechCentral.ie ↗
“Mozilla's revenues would fall sharply if it had to replace Google with Bing as the default search engine in Firefox”
Mozilla, In amicus brief, citing own research · TechCentral.ie ↗
“The beauty of Mozilla coming out against regulating Google because they depend on the money Google pays them is that we're only a few years away from them saying that we can't regulate AI companies for the very same reason”
yoasif@mastodon.social, Mastodon user · Mastodon ↗
“I love Firefox but feel little pity for Mozilla which receives $400+ million a year on search placement in their browser but spends only a tiny fraction on its development”
hn_submit, Hacker News commenter · Hacker News ↗
“Like it or not, Firefox is essential for a somewhat (increasingly less) open web, and (at least for now) Mozilla is essential to Firefox”
freedomben, Hacker News commenter · Hacker News ↗
“Judge Mehta's reasoning is obviously correct”
concinds, Hacker News commenter · Hacker News ↗
“At this point I want Mozilla to fail. They're actively draining resources from people who want to protect the open internet”
throwaway27448, Hacker News commenter · Hacker News ↗
The conversation unedited, verbatim
96 comments claimed on the threads · 16 collected here from 3 sites · 16 voices below over time ↑
Where people stand verbatim
The conversation centers on whether Mozilla's financial dependence on Google is a legitimate concern or self-inflicted mismanagement. While some worry about competitive alternatives if Mozilla exits, many commenters are skeptical of the company's position, pointing to its $400+ million annual Google revenue and poor spending priorities.
The dispute Whether Firefox's survival depends on Mozilla receiving Google payments, or whether Mozilla's mismanagement is the real problem and Firefox could thrive under better stewardship or a successor organization.
Mozilla's exit threat is real and harmful; blocking payments would harm browser competition and entrench Big Tech.
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“Like it or not, Firefox is essential for a somewhat (increasingly less) open web, and (at least for now) Mozilla is essential to Firefox”
freedomben · Hacker News ↗ -
“Judge Mehta's reasoning is obviously correct”
concinds · Hacker News ↗
Mozilla is mismanaging massive Google revenue and deserves to fail; Firefox could thrive under different stewardship.
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“I love Firefox but feel little pity for Mozilla which receives $400+ million a year on search placement in their browser but spends only a tiny fraction on its development”
hn_submit · Hacker News ↗ -
“At this point I want Mozilla to fail. They're actively draining resources from people who want to protect the open internet”
throwaway27448 · Hacker News ↗
Mozilla's argument is hypocritical; it opposes regulation of Google while depending on Google's payments and will use the same logic to resist AI regulation.
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“The beauty of Mozilla coming out against regulating Google because they depend on the money Google pays them is that we're only a few years away from them saying that we can't regulate AI companies”
yoasif@mastodon.social · Mastodon ↗
- Yesterday
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The point that people aren’t getting is that Chrome (the Google browser) is not the default on all non-Apple OSes - Edge comes pre-installed on Windows, which last time I checked still had around 30% of the market. Microsoft Edge is a browser built on Chromium (browser engine) - that’s not in dispute. I’m not mixing anything up, if anyone it’s OPs…
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The beauty of # Mozilla coming out against regulating # Google because they depend on the money Google pays them is that we're only a few years away from them saying that we can't regulate # AI companies for the very same reason - "The AI # LLM companies pay us, and wouldn't it be a pity if # firefox went away if you regulate them?" Mozilla now…
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... by its funding deal with Google. https://www. techcentral.ie/mozilla-says-st ricter-antitrust-measures-against-google-threaten-firefox/ 'According to Mehta, a ban on those payments would have major consequences for these companies and for the markets in which they operate. He stated that such a ban could lead distributors to continue offering…
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Sounds like poor prior proper planning enabling piss poor performance (the 7 Ps) on Mozilla's part.They need to figure out how to break away from Google. It's clearly an abusive relationship.Mozilla also manages itself horribly. They need to do things differently. For one, stop paying the CEO an inappropriate amount of money. Second, stop loading…
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Everyone complains about the CEO pay but it's not that significant compared to the overall budget. The actual $$ goes to spending on office space in San Francisco, Paris (apparently not anymore), and other expensive cities and paying salaries to match the CoL in those areas.
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Chrome should be split, Firefox or its forks (if Mozilla continues to mismanage) should be able to receive funds from Google but Chrome should not be allowed to be paid for Google search engine placement at least for the next 5-6 years.I'm sure many other players will play top dollar to be the default on a browser that virtually commands all the…
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HN is incredibly inconsistent and spastic about which Mozilla side projects are "frivolous" and which ought to be defended to the death.Rust was a side project, asm.js was a side project that turned into WASM, IIRC LetsEncrypt was a side project (or at least a side project of some Mozilla engineers, if not official), significant parts of the…
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for all the PR that mozilla floats about them being the guardian of free internet, i would wager that, today, most non-tech folks will have hard time configuring firefox properly. it used to be simple back in the days, now they have made it so complex to tie all of them together.also, previously on android, when apps were cleared from desktop, the…
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Like many here, I think Mozilla has done a terrible job managing their money and they are largely to blame for the pickle they are in.However, I don't see who picks up the reigns if Mozilla dies. Like it or not, Firefox is essential for a somewhat (increasingly less) open web, and (at least for now) Mozilla is essential to Firefox. For those who…
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At this point I want Mozilla to fail. They're actively draining resources from people who want to protect the open internet.
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Mozilla has been killing itself. $400mil a year and very little to show for it in the browser. I still rep Firefox but ladybird could not come sooner.
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Mozilla should start exploring a subscription business and tout its continued support for the full uBlock Origin among other extensions. I would pay a small amount annually to support its development and I bet I'm not alone.
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They also could have used those payments to build up an endowment that makes them not dependent on others.
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I love Firefox but feel little pity for Mozilla which receives $400+ million a year on search placement in their browser but spends only a tiny fraction on its development. The rest is wasted on greedy management and frivolous projects to give that same management an excuse to give themselves multi-million dollar payouts.Everyone's only in it for…
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Judge Mehta's reasoning is obviously correct.> US federal and state competition authorities recently asked the court of appeals to overturn the part of Mehta’s ruling that permits these payments.You get the "competition authorities" you pay for. Decades of government-bashing, bureaucrat-bashing, sidelining and shit pay give you this level of…
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It may kill Mozilla, no reason to say it will kill Firefox itself. Perhaps Firefox would flourish a lot more if it is finally released from Mozilla's clutches.