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PoliticsActive today · day 7

Mamdani calls ICE agents 'mass shooters,' demands agency leave New York City

After an ICE agent shot Bronx resident Oscar Belgal with his 5-year-old in the car, the mayor compares the scene to a mass shooting and opens a city investigation.

newest coverage 23m agosummary written 2d ago529 pieces24k likes & upvotes2.1k comments NewswiresMastodonRedditXYouTubeBlueskyGoogle News

What to know

  • ICE agent shot Oscar Belgal, 28, in the neck in the Bronx on Oct 8 while his 5-year-old child was in the back seat; at least seven rounds were fired into the car.
  • The identified agent, Brenden Cuni, has a documented history of alleged excessive force, including a prior Minneapolis assault on a pregnant woman and arrests later found unlawful in federal court.
  • Mayor Mamdani opened a city investigation, personally lobbied Trump and DHS for Belgal's release, and publicly compared the agents' appearance to a mass-shooting scene while demanding ICE leave New York.
  • Belgal remains in federal custody in solitary confinement with a bullet still lodged in his neck, as protesters continue to demonstrate against ICE's presence in the city.

The dispute Commenters split over whether individual acts of resistance or violence against ICE agents are justified, versus whether calls for more confrontational action are unrealistic or reckless. · positions read across 124 posts and comments

many voices

ICE's conduct reflects authoritarian overreach and is being compared to historical fascist tactics.

  • “They're not ready to break out the brown shirts with red armbands just yet. And their white hoods are kept safely tucked away at home.”

    Castun · Reddit ↗
some voices

Mocking commentary targets the physical and professional competence of ICE agents themselves.

  • “You know how losers end up becoming cops because they couldn't make the cut in the military? These are the guys who didn't even meet police standards.”

    Spudtron98 · Reddit ↗
some voices

The violent response to minor immigration infractions is disproportionate and unjust.

  • “You don't need armed goons walking around harassing people for a nonviolent offense. Seriously, it's a fucking misdemeanor, a paperwork issue.”

    FellowHumanNo404 · Reddit ↗

Oscar Belgal Shooting victim, 28, Dominican immigrantZohran MamdaniZohran Mamdani Mayor of New York CityKathy HochulKathy Hochul Governor of New YorkBrenden Cuni ICE supervisor involved in the shootingDepartment of Homeland SecurityDepartment of Homeland Security Federal agency overseeing ICE

Mamdani calls ICE agents 'mass shooters,' demands agency leave New York City
CBS News

How it unfolded 8 developments, newest first · click a bar or a number to jump articlesvideospostscomments

Peak 64 pieces in two hours at Oct 8, 7 PM; 529 pieces over 7 days (283 articles · 25 videos · 206 posts · 15 comments) Oct 8, 11 AM — 54 pieces · 54 articles — Newswires 54Oct 8, 1 PM — 1 piece · 1 article — Newswires 1Oct 8, 3 PM — 1 piece · 1 article — Mastodon 1Oct 8, 5 PM — 30 pieces · 17 articles · 13 posts — Newswires 15, Mastodon 13, Reddit 1, +1 moreOct 8, 7 PM — 64 pieces · 33 articles · 1 video · 29 posts · 1 comment — Mastodon 22, Google News 16, Newswires 15, +4 moreOct 8, 9 PM — 41 pieces · 12 articles · 5 videos · 21 posts · 3 comments — Mastodon 19, Newswires 8, YouTube 5, +4 moreOct 8, 11 PM — 43 pieces · 22 articles · 5 videos · 16 posts — Mastodon 17, Newswires 15, YouTube 5, +3 moreOct 9, 1 AM — 11 pieces · 2 articles · 2 videos · 7 posts — Mastodon 7, Newswires 2, YouTube 2Oct 9, 3 AM — 6 pieces · 3 articles · 3 posts — Mastodon 4, Newswires 2Oct 9, 5 AM — 8 pieces · 4 articles · 4 posts — Newswires 4, Mastodon 3, Reddit 1Oct 9, 7 AM — 17 pieces · 10 articles · 7 posts — Newswires 8, Mastodon 6, Bluesky 2, +1 moreOct 9, 9 AM — 39 pieces · 24 articles · 3 videos · 12 posts — Newswires 22, Mastodon 9, YouTube 3, +3 moreOct 9, 11 AM — 46 pieces · 30 articles · 2 videos · 14 posts — Newswires 29, Mastodon 13, YouTube 2, +2 moreOct 9, 1 PM — 18 pieces · 7 articles · 4 videos · 7 posts — Mastodon 7, Newswires 7, YouTube 4Oct 9, 3 PM — 15 pieces · 10 articles · 5 posts — Mastodon 7, Google News 4, Newswires 3, +1 moreOct 9, 5 PM — 19 pieces · 5 articles · 2 videos · 12 posts — Mastodon 8, Newswires 4, Reddit 3, +3 moreOct 9, 7 PM — 17 pieces · 3 articles · 1 video · 9 posts · 4 comments — Mastodon 7, Reddit 4, Bluesky 3, +2 moreOct 9, 9 PM — 13 pieces · 5 articles · 6 posts · 2 comments — Mastodon 7, Newswires 4, Reddit 2Oct 9, 11 PM — 5 pieces · 2 articles · 3 posts — Mastodon 3, Newswires 2Oct 10, 1 AM — 5 pieces · 1 article · 4 posts — Mastodon 4, Newswires 1Oct 10, 3 AM — 1 piece · 1 article — Newswires 1Oct 10, 5 AM — 2 pieces · 1 article · 1 post — Newswires 1, Mastodon 1Oct 10, 7 AM — 5 pieces · 2 articles · 1 post · 2 comments — Reddit 2, Newswires 2, Mastodon 1Oct 10, 9 AM — 3 pieces · 1 article · 1 post · 1 comment — Mastodon 1, Reddit 1, Newswires 1Oct 10, 11 AM — 12 pieces · 7 articles · 5 posts — Newswires 7, Mastodon 4, X 1Oct 10, 1 PM — 7 pieces · 5 articles · 2 posts — Google News 3, Mastodon 2, Newswires 2Oct 10, 3 PM — 2 pieces · 2 posts — Mastodon 2Oct 10, 5 PM — 1 piece · 1 post — Mastodon 1Oct 10, 7 PM — quietOct 10, 9 PM — quietOct 10, 11 PM — 6 pieces · 1 article · 5 posts — Mastodon 5, Newswires 1Oct 11, 1 AM — 2 pieces · 1 article · 1 post — Mastodon 2Oct 11, 3 AM — quietOct 11, 5 AM — 3 pieces · 2 articles · 1 post — Mastodon 1, Google News 1, Newswires 1Oct 11, 7 AM — quietOct 11, 9 AM — 2 pieces · 2 posts — Bluesky 1, Mastodon 1Oct 11, 11 AM — 4 pieces · 4 articles — Google News 2, Mastodon 1, Newswires 1Oct 11, 1 PM — 3 pieces · 2 articles · 1 post — Google News 1, Mastodon 1, Newswires 1Oct 11, 3 PM — 1 piece · 1 article — Newswires 1Oct 11, 5 PM — quietOct 11, 7 PM — 1 piece · 1 post — Reddit 1Oct 11, 9 PM — 1 piece · 1 post — Mastodon 1Oct 11, 11 PM — quietOct 12, 1 AM — quietOct 12, 3 AM — quietOct 12, 5 AM — quietOct 12, 7 AM — 2 pieces · 2 articles — Mastodon 1, Newswires 1Oct 12, 9 AM — 5 pieces · 4 articles · 1 post — Mastodon 2, Newswires 2, Google News 1Oct 12, 11 AM — 4 pieces · 1 article · 3 posts — Mastodon 2, Newswires 1, Reddit 1Oct 12, 1 PM — quietOct 12, 3 PM — 1 piece · 1 post — Mastodon 1Oct 12, 5 PM — quietOct 12, 7 PM — quietOct 12, 9 PM — 1 piece · 1 post — Mastodon 1Oct 12, 11 PM — quietOct 13, 1 AM — quietOct 13, 3 AM — quietOct 13, 5 AM — quietOct 13, 7 AM — quietOct 13, 9 AM — 1 piece · 1 post — Reddit 1Oct 13, 11 AM — quietOct 13, 1 PM — quietOct 13, 3 PM — quietOct 13, 5 PM — quietOct 13, 7 PM — quietOct 13, 9 PM — quietOct 13, 11 PM — quietYesterday, 1 AM — quietYesterday, 3 AM — quietYesterday, 5 AM — quietYesterday, 7 AM — quietYesterday, 9 AM — quietYesterday, 11 AM — quietYesterday, 1 PM — quietYesterday, 3 PM — quietYesterday, 5 PM — 1 piece · 1 article — Newswires 1Yesterday, 7 PM — quietYesterday, 9 PM — 3 pieces · 1 article · 2 posts — Mastodon 1, Reddit 1, Newswires 1Yesterday, 11 PM — 1 piece · 1 comment — Reddit 1Today, 1 AM — quietToday, 3 AM — quietToday, 5 AM — 1 piece · 1 comment — Reddit 1 12345678
Oct 9Oct 10Oct 11Oct 12Oct 13yesterdaynow · 7:21 AM ET
  1. 8

    Mamdani likens ICE agents to 'mass shooters', demands they leave city

    In his first media interview since the shooting, Mamdani told MS NOW's Jacob Soboroff that the plainclothes, masked ICE agents with a long gun looked like a mass-shooting scene and renewed his call for ICE to end its operations in New York City; attorneys said Belgal, held in solitary confinement at the Metropolitan Detention Center, still has a bullet lodged in his neck.

    “ICE agents who shot man in New York looked like 'mass shooters'”
    — Zohran Mamdani
    1. 5 outlets Mamdani Demands Trump End ICE Operations in New York After Shooting

      first by Time, 5d ago · also National Politics, Bloomberg Politics, The Intercept, Time Magazine

      4 more headlines
    2. 3 outlets Man Shot by ICE in New York Still Has Bullet in Neck, Lawyers Say

      first by Newsweek, 2d ago · also Gothamist, ABC News

      2 more headlines
    2 more claims →
    • vicfroh@mastodon.social

      https://www. theguardian.com/us-news/2026/o ct/10/california-man-72-shoots-ice-officer-fresno-off-duty?fbclid=IwdGRjcAU56W1jbGNrBTnpZmV4dG4DYWVtAjExAHBkb2YBc3J0YwZhcHBfaWQMMzUwNjg1NTMxNzI4AAEeYQ-Oymag02T2q1-zHAP13umpivJSJVnbzeqAgcwjgtsyr1nPW_FaWSzDYd0_aem_MoBgSeTAhVIiocLzg-JdHw # icethugs # iceterrorists # ICENazis # ICEpussies # deadnazis # news…

      vicfroh@mastodon.socialMastodon2d agoview on Mastodon ↗
    2 more of the top 3 · 5 posts in this stretch

    • Off-Topic : All submissions to /r/politics need to be explicitly about current US politics . If you have questions as to why your post has been removed, please see here: Why was my post removed as Off-Topic?

      politics-ModTeamr/politics6h agoview on r/politics ↗
    • mark@mastodon.fixermark.com

      We gotta do something about this cop-on-fed violence. https://www. yourcentralvalley.com/news/loc al-news/ice-agent-shot-fresno-homeowner/

      mark@mastodon.fixermark.comMastodon2d agoview on Mastodon ↗
    all of them →
  2. 7

    Mamdani announces city investigation into the shooting

    Mamdani said New York City would formally investigate the ICE shooting, with his administration reviewing both ICE and NYPD actions surrounding the incident.

    1. 4 outlets ‘Abolish ICE’: Mamdani, AOC and other Democrats urge action after New York shooting

      first by The Guardian, 5d ago · also Fox News, Washington Examiner, Guardian

      2 more headlines
    2. 3 outlets What we know about the ICE shooting in New York City

      first by CNN, 3d ago · also Bloomberg Politics, CBS News

      1 more headline
    1 more claim →
    • ronnig.bsky.social

      @chicagotribune.com @nytimes.com why are I reading about an ICE agent committing felonies in @theguardian.com instead of your newspapers? Any chance your journalists might investigate crimes committed by ICE agents on and off duty?

      ronnig.bsky.socialBluesky3d ago1▲view on Bluesky ↗
    2 more of the top 3 · 3 posts in this stretch
    • ChrisAintMarchin@mastodon.social

      https://www. nydailynews.com/2026/10/11/ice -agents-looked-more-like-mass-shooters-than-law-enforcement-in-nyc-shooting-mamdani/

      ChrisAintMarchin@mastodon.socialMastodon3d agoview on Mastodon ↗
    • Nazani@universeodon.com

      Fresno, CA - Off-duty drunk ICE agent shot by 72-year-old man.

      Nazani@universeodon.comMastodon3d agoview on Mastodon ↗
    all of them →
  3. 6

    Same agent linked to prior Minneapolis assault of pregnant woman

    Al Jazeera reported that the ICE agent involved in the October 8 New York shooting had also been filmed during a controversial Minneapolis arrest in which a pregnant woman was assaulted.

    1. 2 outlets ICE agent in New York shooting also involved in assault of pregnant woman

      first by Mastodon, 2d ago · also Al Jazeera

    • Fresno: Off-duty ICE agent David Gonzalez (32, Texas) was found asleep on a family’s front lawn around 3 a.m. When the 72-year-old homeowner told him to leave, Gonzalez — appearing intoxicated — assaulted him and then his daughter. The homeowner shot him once. Fresno PD: no

      @strujillo075X4d ago39▲view on X ↗
    2 more of the top 3 · 13 posts in this stretch
    • servelan

      "An ICE supervisor seen brandishing a rifle after the high-profile shooting in New York on Oct 8 was also involved in a controversial arrest in Minneapolis in December in which agents knelt on and dragged a pregnant woman through the street." ICE agent in New York shooting also involved in assault of pregnant woman | Donald Trump | Al Jazeera…

      servelanMastodon4d ago5▲view on Mastodon ↗

    • Did you support the illegal invasion of Iraq? Do you support the war with Iran? Do you support sanctions on NK, Russia, Cuba, Venezuela? Do you support the invasion of Venezuela? Do you support US support for Israel? If the answer to all of the above is no, I don't hate you. If not, you're the problem. It is not a Trump problem. He's just a…

      schmapeschmaper/politics4d agoview on r/politics ↗
    all of them →
  4. 5

    Protests erupt and officials press Trump administration for release

    An emergency protest was held at Foley Square under the banners #HandsOffNYC and #AbolishICE; Governor Hochul spoke with Trump and DHS Secretary Mullin urging a halt to ICE operations, and Mamdani spent two hours on the phone with Trump and Mullin trying to get Belgal released from custody.

    “I expressed outrage on behalf of New Yorkers and urged them to halt ICE enforcement operations in New York.”
    — Gov. Kathy Hochul
    1. 11 outlets ICE officers shot New York man because they believed they were in danger, official says

      first by Associated Press, 5d ago · also PBS NewsHour, Washington Examiner, NBC News, Guardian US, Hindustan Times, Chicago Tribune +4

      5 more headlines
    2. 3 outlets Trump Officials Clash With Mamdani Over ICE Shooting in NYC

      first by Bloomberg, 5d ago · also NYT, Bloomberg Politics

      1 more headline
    1 more claim →

    • An off-duty ICE agent from Texas was found sleeping on a Fresno family’s lawn around 3 a.m. Police say he appeared intoxicated, assaulted a 72-year-old man, then attacked his daughter when she intervened. The father shot him, fearing for their safety. The agent is hospitalized

      @DittiePEX5d ago2.0k▲view on X ↗
    2 more of the top 3 · 30 posts in this stretch
    • riseandresist.bsky.social

      10.09.2026 YESTERDAY AN ICE AGENT SHOT A NEW YORKER WITH A 5-YEAR OLD IN THE CAR. THIS EVENING AN EMERGENCY PROTEST WAS HELD IN FOLEY SQUARE. #HandsOffNYC

      riseandresist.bsky.socialBluesky5d ago148▲view on Bluesky ↗
    • ai6yr@m.ai6yr.org

      ABC7: 72-year-old man shoots off-duty ICE agent found asleep on Fresno lawn, agent arrested: Police "...An ICE agent is in custody at a local hospital after police say he was shot after assaulting an elderly man and his daughter at a home in Fresno....police say he appeared drunk and assaulted the 72-year-old....Fearing for their safety, officers…

      ai6yr@m.ai6yr.orgMastodon5d ago9▲view on Mastodon ↗
    all of them →
  5. 4

    Agent identified as Brenden Cuni, with record of alleged violence

    Reporting identified the ICE supervisor involved as Brenden Cuni, who has been accused of excessive force, including tackling a pregnant woman, and whose arrests have been found unlawful in federal court; witnesses said agents on scene were posing as construction workers.

    “They shot a member of our community in the neck while he was in his car. His five-year-old kid was in a child seat in the back of the car when ICE agents fired at least 7 rounds into it.”
    — @DarializaforNY, Social media post · source
    1. 2 outlets ICE Agent at NYC Shooting Has History of Alleged Violence and Illegal Arrests

      first by Mastodon, 6d ago · also Wired

    2. 2 outlets ICE Agent on Scene of NYC Shooting Was Posing as Construction Worker, Eyewitness Says

      first by Mastodon, 6d ago · also The Intercept

    • Yesterday, an ICE agent opened fire in Marble Hill. They shot a member of our community in the neck while he was in his car. His five-year-old kid was in a child seat in the back of the car when ICE agents fired at least 7 rounds into it. This was in the middle of the afternoon,

      @DarializaforNYX5d ago11k▲view on X ↗
    2 more of the top 3 · 13 posts in this stretch
    • joffirphd.bsky.social

      ICE fired 7 shots into a car as it drove away, hitting the driver in the neck. There was a 5 yr old in the car. Kids were everywhere ICE wore construction vests & masks - nothing to show they were officers - & carried a long gun. We need national protests.

      joffirphd.bsky.socialBluesky5d ago328▲view on Bluesky ↗
    • tusk81@mastodon.social

      “Yesterday evening in New York City, ICE officers surrounded and fired shots into a car. One of their shots hit the driver, Oscal Belgal, in the neck.“ “His five-year-old son was in the backseat of the car that masked agents of the state surrounded and fired their guns into.” https://www. liberalcurrents.com/ice-shoots -a-man-in-front-of-his-child/

      tusk81@mastodon.socialMastodon5d ago5▲view on Mastodon ↗
    all of them →
  6. 3

    Off-duty ICE agent shot in Fresno after assaulting family

    An off-duty ICE agent from Texas, found intoxicated and asleep on a Fresno family's lawn, assaulted a 72-year-old man and then his daughter; the homeowner shot the agent in self-defense and was not charged, while the agent was arrested and charged with felony assault.

    “72 year old man shot a drunk off-duty ICE agent in Fresno, after the ICE agent, who had passed out in front of his house at 3:30 AM, attacked the 72 year-old man and his daughter…”
    — ABC7 San Francisco

    1. 11 outlets first by Independent UK, 4d ago · also LA Times, LA Times California, NY Post, New York Post, ABC7 Los Angeles, abc7NY +4 · read ↗

    2. 4 outlets first by Hindustan Times, 5d ago · also Newsweek, ABC7, ABC30 Fresno · read ↗

    2 more claims →
    • nbcnews.com

      An ICE officer shot a man in the neck in New York City as the man’s 5-year-old son was in the car, officials say, prompting anger from protesters and Mayor Zohran Mamdani who calls it “an outrage.”

      nbcnews.comBluesky5d ago164▲view on Bluesky ↗
    2 more of the top 3 · 13 posts in this stretch

    • A FIVE-YEAR-OLD CHILD WAS IN THAT CAR. An ICE agent opened fire in a New York neighborhood. A man was shot. A child was sitting just feet away. Five years old. Let that sink in. Mayor Zohran Mamdani has spoken out, demanding ICE be removed from New York's neighborhoods and

      @Sweet_Bee1972X6d ago41▲view on X ↗
    • YouGiveMeFever@union.place

      The Trump era. With complete disregard for a child's life... "ICE agent shoots man with five-year-old child nearby in New York City": https://www. yahoo.com/news/us/articles/per son-wounded-york-shooting-involving-224811769.html

      YouGiveMeFever@union.placeMastodon6d ago10▲view on Mastodon ↗
    all of them →
  7. 2

    Mamdani condemns shooting as DHS defends its agents

    Mamdani called the shooting 'unconscionable' and said he would demand ICE leave New York, while DHS confirmed its role and blamed 'sanctuary politicians' for forcing agents into unpredictable arrests; protesters gathered at the scene the same evening.

    “I will not stand by while ICE agents terrorize our communities…”
    — Zohran Mamdani
    1. 14 outlets Person shot by ICE agent in New York City, law enforcement sources say

      first by CBS News, 6d ago · also NBC News, KTVZ-TV, The Hill, CP24, CTV News, CBC +7

      11 more headlines
    2. 6 outlets Mamdani: ‘No explanation’ for ICE shooting man near child in New York

      first by The Hill, 5d ago · also Straits Times, NYT, NY Post, New York Post, UPI

      4 more headlines
    2 more claims →

    • ICE agent shot a guy in his car in the Bronx today (with his kid in the backseat). That guy is now in the hospital under ICE custody. Mamdani has now deployed the police unit he once promised to disband to suppress the protest at the hospital

      @TheLastFarmX6d ago4.3k▲view on X ↗
    2 more of the top 3 · 47 posts in this stretch
    • motherjones.com

      BREAKING: A federal immigration agent shot a man in the Bronx on Thursday afternoon, the latest of nearly two dozen such shootings in the past two years. A statement by New York Mayor Zohran Mamdani indicated that the man had a five-year-old child in his car.

      motherjones.comBluesky6d ago603▲view on Bluesky ↗
    • theintercept

      A member of Congress at the scene confirmed to The Intercept that there was a child in victim's car when ICE agents shot at it. https:// theintercept.com/2026/10/08/ic e-nyc-shooting-federal-agent

      theinterceptMastodon6d ago86▲view on Mastodon ↗
    all of them →
  8. 1

    ICE agent shoots Oscar Belgal in the Bronx with child in car

    An ICE officer shot and wounded Oscar Belgal, 28, in the Marble Hill neighborhood of the Bronx during an arrest attempt, firing at least seven rounds into his car while his 5-year-old child was in the back seat.

    1. 17 outlets ICE agent shoots, wounds man in NYC: police

      first by NY Post, 6d ago · also Globe and Mail, The City Reporter, Telegraph India, Sky News, GB News, Mother Jones +10

      15 more headlines
    2. 10 outlets New York City man shot in car with child present by ICE agents: Mayor

      first by Channel News Asia, 6d ago · also France 24 EN, RTE News, RTÉ, Yahoo, CNBC, Jerusalem Post +3

      4 more headlines
    12 more claims →

Also covered reported alongside — the timeline has no entry for these yet

  1. 5 outlets Person shot during interaction with federal agents in New York City: NYPD

    first by ABC News, 6d ago · also Guardian, Washington Examiner, Chicago Tribune, Philadelphia Inquirer

    3 more headlines
  2. 4 outlets NYPD body camera footage shows aftermath of ICE agent shooting in Marble Hill

    first by CBS News, 5d ago · also Time, Sydney Morning Herald, Al Jazeera

    3 more headlines
  3. 4 outlets ICE officers shot New York man because they believed they were in danger

    first by Philadelphia Inquirer, 5d ago · also Globe and Mail, CBC, Courthouse News

    3 more headlines
  4. 3 outlets Feds blame NYC's sanctuary policies for violent ICE arrest

    first by Gothamist, 5d ago · also The City NY, The City Reporter

    1 more headline
  5. 3 outlets Live updates: Mamdani fumes over NYC ICE shooting; Trump to make blue-state stop in midterm blitz

    first by The Hill, 5d ago · also Bloomberg Markets, National Politics

    2 more headlines
  6. 3 outlets ICE shooting in NYC prompts Mamdani outreach to Trump

    first by Politico, 6d ago · also Washington Examiner, News24

    2 more headlines
  7. 3 outlets ICE agent shoots, wounds ‘criminal illegal’ migrant in NYC with boy, 5, sitting in back of his car: police, sources

    first by New York Post, 6d ago · also Joe.My.God., Gothamist

    2 more headlines
  8. 2 outlets What we know about the ICE shooting in NYC

    first by Gothamist, 5d ago · also CBS News

    1 more headline
  9. 2 outlets ICE officer shot after passing out drunk on Fresno lawn, police say

    first by Mastodon, 5d ago · also SFGATE

  10. 2 outlets In Call With Mamdani, White House Demanded NYPD Arrest Immigrant Shot by ICE Agents

    first by The City NY, 5d ago · also The City Reporter

and 20 smaller pieces

What people are saying 12 voices from 4 sites · best of 124 · verbatim

Still unanswered
  • Will body camera footage of the Marble Hill shooting be released, as Gov. Hochul requested?
  • What will the city's investigation into ICE and NYPD conduct conclude?